What Are Death Cafés?

Today SevenPonds concludes our conversation with Lizzy Miles. Lizzy works at a hospice center in Columbus, Ohio, and was the first person to host a Death Café in the United States in 2012. The Death Café movement was originally championed by Jon Underwood of the United Kingdom (who unfortunately died suddenly last summer) based on the idea originally conceived by Bernard Crettaz.

Editors’ Note: This interview has been edited for length and readability.  

Credit: Lizzy Miles

Lucas Morgan: I’m sure it varies greatly, but I’m going to ask: What’s the typical turnout for a Death Café?

Lizzy Miles: It definitely varies by the city. People on the West Coast really like Death Cafés more than us Midwest and East Coast people. Up in Portland, Oregon, for example, they’ll have like 70 people for one Death Café, which is kind of insane; that’s not really like a coffee shop conversation.

Lucas: Yes, that seems a bit ridiculous. I’d think the smaller the better!

Lizzy: Jon used to say the ideal size is from eight to twelve people. Honestly, if there are four people that come, you can have a really good conversation. If I have eight people show up, I would personally break them into two groups of four. This way you can get the introverts to open up and can get a lot more people talking. I feel strongly that with less people, you can have a stronger conversation, rather than everybody sitting around listening to one person. Because everyone that comes has stuff on their mind.

Lucas: Would you recommend a Death Café for someone who is actively grieving?

Lizzy: I would let people decide for themselves. In the beginning, I tried to prescreen attendees. For instance I had a woman once who had lost her twin to suicide. And I said, “Oh, no, this isn’t for you.” But then she responded, “No, I’m OK, I want to come.”

Since I am a licensed social worker, I think I am more comfortable with the idea that there might be grief at the meeting. But it’s pretty rare for someone who is in the thick of grief to want to come to a Death Café. If they’re really, really grieving, it’s probably the last thing they’d want to do. But it all depends on how the individual handles it.

Lucas: Do you think it would be beneficial for everyone to attend a Death Café?

Lizzy: That’s probably a difference between myself and some other hosts. I’d say go if you want to talk about death. After hosting Cafés and doing hospice for a few years, I feel that everybody has their own way of relating to death and dying. Some people just don’t want to talk or think about death, and that’s OK.

I used to try and push it on people, but I don’t do that anymore. I used to guilt trip people, particularly my friends, into going, and I let that go. Death Café is not about making someone or things “better.” That’s giving it too much credit. It’s really just the safe place if you want to talk. If you want to talk, you’ll really enjoy it. If not, don’t go.

Lucas: Are there any lessons or things you’ve learned over the years since you started hosting Death Cafés?

Credit: ceartas.org.uk

Lizzy: Just the wide variety of viewpoints that people have. Death Cafés really expose you to other points of view, and how so much of the way we view the world is based upon our own upbringing, culture, experiences, etc. It’s really been eye-opening, even in the homogeneous area where I host. There are so many different points of view related to death and dying.

Lucas: We’ve talked about how anyone can start a new Death Café. How does someone go about hosting their own?

Lizzy: Find a location that is relatively cheap, preferably somewhere that doesn’t cost any money. It helps to have an area that can be closed off from the rest of the café, restaurant or wherever you may be. Then find a cohost, because it’s always better to have two people, then set a date and get the word out. Reading the guidelines can help as well.

You can register your event on deathcafe.com. Anyone can create a login and sign up to post their Death Café. That’s about it!

Lucas: Are there any rules related to hosting?

Lizzy: Apart from “have tea and cake and talk about death,” it’s also important to not have an agenda. Don’t use topics or guest speakers. It should be free and open to the community. It’s not a money-making scheme. Don’t sell books at the event, things like that. You don’t have to work in the death industry to host, but it does help to have some comfort in the event that someone cries. That’s pretty rare, though, and has almost never happened in my experience.

Lucas: Are there any particularly memorable Death Cafés you’ve hosted that stick out in your mind?

Lizzy: I wouldn’t say an entire event, but there are certain conversations that I remember. There was one event where we were talking about our “legacies” and writing obituaries. There was somebody from India, I believe he was Hindu, and he said, “We don’t really care about legacies. Why do you care if you’re gone?” And everybody else in the room had the traditional American background, and we were all kind of like, “Hmmm.” It hadn’t really crossed our minds as to why we really cared.

Also anytime someone has driven a long way to come to the event is memorable. One time a doctor had driven 45 minutes to one hour after a 12-hour work day. There have been people who drove three hours. I also get a lot of age diversity at the events. I’ve had numerous events where the age-range spans 70 years from people in their 20s to others in their 90s.

Credit: Lizzy Miles

Lucas: Have you noticed over the years that people are more open to talking about death and dying — that the topics have become more acceptable to discuss in our culture?

Lizzy: There has been a sort of death revolution over the past three or four years. And I don’t think Death Café had a hand in that particularly, but it did kind of tap into the trend. When I first started hosting Death Cafés and looking for articles about death and dying, they would come up once every two or three days.

Now there are all these books and movies about death, and it’s become sort of trendy to talk about it. It seems like things have changed, but I’m not really sure why.

Lucas: Do you have any suggestions or tips for anyone who has recently lost a loved one?

Lizzy: There’s a phrase a hospice patient taught me: “Love has no distance.” From a spiritual standpoint, they’re still with you. I grew up with death being a part of life. I would say to people who are grieving, what you’re experiencing is normal, and be kind to yourself.

Lucas: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me, Lizzy! I think that people should be open to talking about death and dying, and a Death Café seems like a great outlet for the topic. Death is a part of life, and it’s still such a taboo topic in this country. People should embrace the willingness to talk about it openly.

Lizzy: You’re very welcome Lucas! I agree. If you avoid death, when it happens, and it will happen to all of us and those around us, the shock is just so terrible for people who choose to avoid it all. So starting to “dip your toe in the water” regarding death can be very beneficial.

In case you missed it, check out part one of our interview with Lizzy Miles here.